More on Neo Nazis and Vlaams Belang
Charles Johnson links to two fascinating, “devastating” he rightfully calls them, posts about the Belgium political party Vlaams Belang and its neo-nazist ideology. One of those articles is this one at Noblesse Oblige. I encourage all of you to head on over to NO as to read it in its entirety. It’s, indeed, a devastating article. It leaves no doubt about the ideology of the leaders of the Vlaams Belang and many of its supporters. These people shouldn’t be defended, they should be attacked, time and again. It says all we need to know about the European blogs who like to call themselves ‘conservative’ (they’re no such thing, they’re simply bigots) and who defend the Vlaams Belang.
Noblesse Oblige’s Thanos links, among many other things, to this video. Watch it. The narrator speaks Dutch, but that doesn’t matter very much: it’s about what the people in the video do. This video was shot in 2006, at the swear-in ceremony for new members of a municipality board in Belgium. Watch it until one woman has to take the oath. Here’s an image:
That’s, indeed, the Hitler salute, or the Hitlergroet in Dutch. That’s something only fervent nazis do. In fact, it’s even illegal in many countries. If you do this in the Netherlands you can be arrested.
The name of this, well, lady is Maria de Berlanger. She’s not just a politician for Vlaams Belang, she’s “also the secretary for Vlaams Belang Jongeren” (Vlaams Belang Youths – much like the Hitler Jügend).
Of course there’s more to it all than that. There are also images on the net of the leader of Vlaams Belang, Filip DeWinter, bringing the same salute. He did so when he was sworn into the Belgian Parliament in “‘91 or ‘92,” according to Thenos. Here’s the proof (remember, this man is still leading the far-right in Belgium and some European bloggers are busily defending him):
That’s not all though. Nobless Oblige has much, much more interesting facts that prove that Vlaams Belang and its followers aren’t conservatives, nor immigration and foreign policy hawks, but true neo-nazis.
As I wrote a couple of weeks ago: American conservatives should be very careful whom they associate with. There are some European conservatives out there who, like myself, are immigration and foreign policy hawks and who are absolutely not bigots. However, although we’re conservative for European standards, we’re often Centrist for American standards. This means that American conservatives and European conservatives will disagree on a number of issues. But, we’ve got to accept these differences if we want to be able to deal with the challenges the West faces today. The only alternative for American conservatives is that they have to join forces with the European far-right. These individuals, however, will greatly tarnish the image of American conservatives because these Europeans aren’t conservatives but nazis or fascists.
Some American bloggers like Charles seems to understand this and try to distance themselves from people like these European bigots. On the other hand, there are also, still, American conservatives out there who don’t seem to realize just who they’re dealing with and who have no problem talking to Vlaams Belang and its supporters.
That’s a problem. Both for American and European conservatives. Why? Because once American conservatives are branded fascist enablers it’ll be very difficult for European conservatives to work with them on any number of issues.
Thanks to Charles for linking back. One commenter, Iron Fist, writes: “And this sums up the whole clash very nicely: if we allow ourselves to be tied to neo-Nazi parties, we will be perceived as neo-Nazi no matter where we stand on the issues. The poor choice (and it is a choice) of allies now could become an inseparable millstone later.”
Exactly.
"There are some European conservatives out there who, like myself, are immigration and foreign policy hawks and who are absolutely not bigots. However, although we’re conservative for European standards, we’re often Centrist for American standards. This means that American conservatives and European conservatives will disagree on a number of issues. But, we’ve got to accept these differences if we want to be able to deal with the challenges the West faces today. The only alternative for American conservatives is that they have to join forces with the European far-right."
That sums it up rather nicely, doesn’t it? You consider yourself a centrist (by American standards) and therefore Americans should come around to your views instead of those they agree with (the wascally "far-right") .
Nope, not selling out. Thanks for playing.
- Sodra
LOL There ya go. Bookend a "be careful who you associate with" post with words of wisdom from the knife-wielding sadistic maniac who calls himself "Iron Fist".
Nice one!
Read the post again Sodra. Actually, that’s not what I say at all is it? It’s we’ve got to accept that we disagree with each other on other issues, and work with each other on issues we (mostly) agree on.
I’m not sure why I took the time to explain that to you but ok.
Thanks kindly for the trackback, it’s appreciated. Bjorn Roose stopped by and I made some corrections to that segement. Would appreciate your input if you have a moment to make sure I am getting it right.
Pay no attention to Sodra. He came into the Lizard Lounge barking about getting all the "Kikes out of the South" (his words verbatim). He fits in very well with the VB.
Great post, Mr. van der Galien!
I consider myself a conservative in the American sense, not the European. I am also keenly aware that were I to be subject to European-style mores, I would be branded just as much a "Nazi" or "fascist" as those you assail. In fact, it’s fast on its way to actually being illegal within EU member-states.
My point was that American conservatives (true conservatives and not just centrists) should not, and in my case, will not, abandon their natural ideological allies until factual evidence can be presented on Nazi ideology.
I’ve always believed that Europe was about 20 years progress in the advancement of liberalism than the U.S. Here in the U.S. we see students assailing strong-border types as "racists" and "Nazis." In 40 years’ time these will be the people in charge of the media and government. Under such a cartoonish regime, I can certainly imagine myself playing along as Dewinter did, evidenced by the fact that the gentleman behind him on his left in that "infamous" photo was on the verge of laughing hysterically.
Thanks, but no thanks. This conservative is not selling out.
- Sodra
Now, now, Mr. Sabra, don’t forget the.. ahem.. colorful language towards Hispanics and Italians. I would’ve named more if I could have thought of them.
Don’t blame me that you missed the sarcasm. You also miss the sarcasm in the Dewinter photo, I see.
- Sodra
Sodra: I saw that you’ve already created quite a reputation for yourself, so if you won’t mind, I won’t respond to your idiotic posts.
“Kikes”?
Anyway, I saw at LGF that this person has indeed already created quite a name for him- or herself, so I won’t respond to his / her comments anymore.
Thanks for the compliment. As I wrote to Charles in an e-mail (after reading some comments at LGF):
I wanted to make something very clear:
- I believe that in the Netherlands we’ve got a very serious integration and immigration problem. Immigrants should be forced to integrate. If they don’t want to, they should go back to their country of origin. Not because they’re less than us, but because when one moves to this country one should at least support its basic principles.
- Immigration should be put to a minimum at this point in time. That change has already come in the Netherlands, mostly, which is a good thing.
- I’m a small government conservative, very small government for European standards. I’m disagreeing with my party the VVD on quite some economic issues because I think that they’re still advocating too big a government.
- I believe that the war on Radical Islam is a very real war and that we have to fight it by diplomatical, economical and military means. We’ve got to do what’s ever necessary to win and we should stop pretending that Islamists can’t base their teachings on Islamic doctrine, they can.
- On the other hand, we should never interpret the Koran for Muslims. This means that if a Muslim says “the right interpretation of the Koran is that we should live in peace with those who have other beliefs” we shouldn’t say “you’re stupid.” We should say “well, I think you’re right, but that means that you’ve got to help us beat the extremists.”
- I supported the War in Iraq when it started. After that I had my doubts (because of the horrible way Bush handled this war in the first years of it), but he has done the right thing to change the strategy and I believe that Europe should send forces to Iraq to help the Americans out
- I support the war in Afghanistan and am proud that my country is playing a vital role in this war. My nephew serves in the Dutch army and was in Afghanistan last year. He’ll go back next year I believe. We need to win this war against all cost
- I’m a foreign policy hawk: although I don’t believe that force should be used against Iran at this point in time, it should be used if it’s necessary to prevent the Mullah thugs from developing WMDs
- We should stand by Israel. If Israel is lost, so will we
- with regards to that quote about Democracy: I don’t see how that implies I’m not a European conservative. In fact, I think it’s very conservative. It’s not liberal (as in America) nor neoconservative, sure, but it’s most certainly conservative
- I’ve been influenced by a number of thinkers, such as: Edmund Burke, Bloom, Russel Kirk, etc. If Burke’s not conservative anymore, well, I guess I’m not conservative then
- This isn’t a case about American conservatives agreeing with European conservatives on everything. That’s not the point of the post. The point is that we’ve got serious problems: both in the US and the EU ánd in the rest of the world (especially the Middle East) and that we’ve got to work together if we want to solve these issues,
- there is however a big difference between European conservatives and neo-nazis such as the people who form Vlaams Belang. They’re not conservative because of an intellectual conservative ideology, they’re conservative only on issues where ‘the conservative thing to do’ is the nazi or fascist thing to do. So, only when it’s a coincidence
- I’ve been called a Nazi myself and I know how easy progressives throw that word around. I do not use that word lightly. When I call someone a nazi it’s because that person brings, for instance, the Hitler Salute. I think it’s safe to say that when someone supports Hitler’s hatefilled ideology he’s probably a Nazi
- Anti-Jihadis and neo-Nazis aren’t one and the same thing. Anti-Jihadis fight an extremist ideology, while neo-Nazis are the extremists. Every European conservative I know understands the difference perfectly and will never confuse the two.
Lastly, this is the first time that I felt forced to defend my European conservative credentials. That’s a bit awkward: everyone who reads my blog should have no difficulty understanding that I’m a true European conservative.
People should be careful with the ludicrous claims made by Mr. Van Der Galien.
That woman is NO Vlaams Belang member. She is francophone, and I’m pretty sure she is a member of the Walloon Front National. Also, there is even some controversy whether this is really a Hitler salute.
WARNING!!! The woman is NO VLAAMS BELANG MEMBER. She probably does not even speak Flemish!!!
Automatic shunning based on, what? Were you there? Because I disagree with the centrists at LGF?
Your stripes are showing, sir, and they are far from conservative.
- Sodra
"I believe that in the Netherlands we’ve got a[n] immigration problem. Immigrants should be forced to integrate. If they don’t want to, they should go back … when one moves to this country one should at least support its basic principles."
Seconded.
"Immigration should be put to a minimum at this point in time."
Seconded – all that is left is to find what considerations set this minimum.
"… the war on Radical Islam is real … we have to fight it by diplomatical, economical and military means"
Seconded – now what is left is finding out what is fair, effective and strategic within the above three fields.
"if a Muslim says “the right interpretation of the Koran is that we should live in peace with those who have other beliefs” we shouldn’t say “you’re stupid.” We should say “well, I think you’re right, but that means that you’ve got to help us beat the extremists.”"
Seconded – all that is required at this point is the level of help we should sak for, and how said intelligent person can help.
"I supported the War in Iraq when it started."
Not me – I didn’t see the rationale being solid in an ethical or probabilistic sense.
"I believe that Europe should send forces to Iraq to help the Americans out"
Bush has not done enough, and no nation should condone the operations until Blackwater and co. have been gutted, humiliated and forced to pay in front of US law. This is just one wrong that should be corrected before any European country jumps in.
"I support the war in Afghanistan and am proud that my country is playing a vital role in this war."
I still see embarassing cowing to contractors who don’t build what they’ve been paid to do, but in the Afghanistan case I think it is best to do more, and make a clear stand.
"[force] should be used if it’s necessary to prevent the Mullah thugs from developing WMDs"
Yup.
"If Israel is lost, so will we"
Yup, but I believe we will lose ourselves if we condone anything Israel chooses to do. No, I am not saying Israel is doing/is capable of anything, but I refuse to commit myself too much to one opinion about the region. I need to learn more.
"They’re not conservative because of an intellectual conservative ideology, they’re conservative only on issues where ‘the conservative thing to do’ is the nazi or fascist thing to do. So, only when it’s a coincidence"
Absolutely.
"I’ve been called a Nazi myself and I know how easy progressives throw that word around."
I am quite ashamed to be on the same side of the fence as anyone who godwins people casually. Not that this fence is a straight line but y’know.
"That’s a bit awkward: everyone who reads my blog should have no difficulty understanding that I’m a true European conservative."
Seconded, and in my view you’re not worse off for it except in minute cases. In my opinion, that is.
I stand corrected. That woman is indeed a Vlaams Belang member. Sorry for reacting in a knee jerk fashion. I confused her with a member of the Walloon Front National, who very likely did indeed bring the Hitler salute.
However, one should know, and I very much regret that Mr. Van Der Galien does not mention it, that the mayor of the locality where Mrs. De Berlanger took the oath, DISPUTES that this is a Hitler salute. ALL council members raise the arm in a similar fashion when they bring the oath, and if you happen to photograph the gesture from a certain angle, you get photos like this one.
Mr. Doyen (CDH): “Maar neen, ze laat haar hand gewoon zakken tijdens de eedaflegging, die overigens niet zo vlot verliep. Mevrouw De Berlanger slaagde er maar niet in om haar tekst te zeggen. Ik heb de foto ook gezien, maar ik kan u verzekeren dat, mocht De Berlanger effectief een Hitlergroet gebracht hebben, wij daar zeker iets over gezegd zouden hebben.”
"…but no, she just dropped her hand after the act of taking the oath, which by the way didn’t go all that smooth. Mrs. De berlanger just seemed unable to recite her text. I have seen the photo too, but I can assure you, if De Berlanger would effectively have brought the Hitler salute, we would certainly have said something about that."
I stand corrected. That woman is indeed a Vlaams Belang member. Sorry for reacting in a knee jerk fashion. I confused her with a member of the Walloon Front National, who very likely did indeed bring the Hitler salute.
However, one should know, and I very much regret that Mr. Van Der Galien does not mention it, that the mayor of the locality where Mrs. De Berlanger took the oath, DISPUTES that this is a Hitler salute. ALL council members raise the arm in a similar fashion when they bring the oath, and if you happen to photograph the gesture from a certain angle, you get photos like this one.
Mr. Doyen (CDH): “Maar neen, ze laat haar hand gewoon zakken tijdens de eedaflegging, die overigens niet zo vlot verliep. Mevrouw De Berlanger slaagde er maar niet in om haar tekst te zeggen. Ik heb de foto ook gezien, maar ik kan u verzekeren dat, mocht De Berlanger effectief een Hitlergroet gebracht hebben, wij daar zeker iets over gezegd zouden hebben.”
Translation:
"…but no, she just dropped her hand after the act of taking the oath, which by the way didn’t go all that smooth. Mrs. De berlanger just seemed unable to recite her text. I have seen the photo too, but I can assure you, if De Berlanger would effectively have brought the Hitler salute, we would certainly have said something about that."
The quote by Mr. Doyen is from a LEFTIST newspaper, De Morgen. Also, the mother-in-law of Mrs. De Berlanger suffered in a German concentration camp.
*lol*
When I was a Christian I used to do the "Hitler greeting" when I prayd at meetings. Nowadays I do it when I cheer at people, and espeacially when I swear an oat.
I think ppl can judge what is seen on these pictures.
More Hitler greetings?
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/8866/GeorgeLauraBush.jpg
http://sanityisland.us/v-web/gallery/albums/album178/capt_cab73e889dba4663bc474cd55339a18f_bush_whre103_1.jpg
But this may be a fake
http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/uploads/bush-satan.jpg
Oh yeah? So… do you agree with me then that Bert Anciaux of the leftist party "Spirit" <a href="http://www.vlaamsbelang.org/images/bertbrengthitlergroet.gif">brings the Hitler salute?</a>
Wouldn’t surprise me at all you know. NSDAP stands, after all, for National Socialist German Workers Party.
So if American Conservatives associate with people that the European Left brand as Far-Right or Nazi, then the European Centrists won’t want to play with us?
I’ve got an idea, for all you European centrists: Grow some balls. Real men don’t care what cowards think of them, and real conservatives don’t sell themselves out for fear of not being invited to liberal tea parties. You European Centrists are somewhere left of our center, and our center stinks of socialism and feminism. Yours is right in the middle of sitting down while peeing, letting the bully punch you in the face because it would rude to not let him express himself and taking the pecker off the Royal coat of arms so your butch womyn don’t have to kick your ass because you offended them.
I agree with Outlaw Mike, that picture has been used quite a lot by militant leftists in Europe to try "prove" their accusations. Without any succes in Europe I must add.
Van der Galiens political views as he describes in his comment look quite positive I must say, and fit those of the Vlaams Belang very well. They would agree on almost everything, including Burke.
The party of Van der Galiens preference though, the VVD, is not conservative in the true sense. The VVD is a social-liberal party, supporting government control of the economy, high taxation, and prefers a growing European Union, including Turkey.
They even opposed a referendum about the EU constitution. Actually, one of the frontrunners of the VVD a few years ago, Hans Dijkstal, joined the socialists in their demonization campaign against Pim Fortuyn, a conservative politician …
In the Netherlands, the only true conservative party at the moment is the PVV (Freedom Party) of Geert Wilders, who was kicked out of the VVD exactly because of his conservative views and his stand on immigration and islamization.
Wilders is, like Dewinter, a sincere advocate of the United States and Israel and both are opposed to the antidemocratic (and socialist) European Union and the islamization thats going on. Also -as usual in Europe- both are called Nazi’s and Fascists by militant leftists
I guess Wilders and Dewinter would propose Van der Galien to also agree on Friedman, Adams, Tocqueville and even Reagan. I think the amongst the few reliable European partners for American Conservatives you can count on the PVV and the Vlaams Belang.
What strikes me though in the post of Van der Galien is that he compares European conservatives like himself with centrists in the US, and accuses anything to the right of himself as being Nazi’s. Following his logic, all true American and European Conservatives are nothing but National Socialists:)
What are the actual policies of European Conservatives with regard to Islamisation?
Thanks, Rob.
What surprises me is that the so-called conservatives, who throw mud at the likes of Vlaams Belang, have no answers of their own and they certainly have no plan. If they cannot come up with solutions who are they to criticise others? There are commentors at LGF, comfortable at their computer keyboards in locations distant from the real action, who criticise those who put themselves in danger but they have no answers or initiatives of their own. Who do you trust, someone who goes out on a limb or those who do nothing but throw mud at those that do? It is time that the commentors at LGF or the European Conservatives come up with some answers or just shut up an defer to those that do.
If fascism is on the rise in Europe then we have one group of people to blame and that group is timid conservatives who do not have the courage of their convictions. They are a truly pathetic politcal group indeed.
Conservative groups in Europe and North America have to get real, they have to decide whether action is more important than words. I fear that they are in love with words and see action as something that isway too risking for their sensitive, and practically useless, dispositions.
Link 4 must be: http://balder.org/presse/Demonstration-Amsterdam-Dam-Square-Freedom-of-Speech-Denmark-250206.php
I posted this earlier, but it seems something went wrong.
In Answer to your earlier question [22]:
The basic stand towards islamization of conservatives like Wilders1) and Dewinter2) is [and this list is incomplete and it may vary a little in between them]:
- an immigration stop for a number of years from islamic countires like Morocco and Turkey;
- a quotum to asylum seekers and support of refugees in their nearby neighbour countries only;
- Christian/Jewish/Humanistic culture has to be dominant;
- Moratorium on the building of mosks and islamic schools;
- Close down of radical mosks, expulsion of radical imams;
- Forbid foreign financing of mosks [mostly by Saudi Arabia];
- Stop allowing immigrants who ar not of Dutch Nationality to vote;
- Firts ten years no right to any social benifits etc;
- No burqa’s etc in government institutions;
- No public sercvants with two nationalities;
- Support of the United States and Israel in all circumstances in the war against terror, not only with words, but also with deeds.
Dewinter and Wilders both strive for a small, minimal government and low taxes. They also want the EU back to basics [a trade-treaty only], a free market like the US and law & order ["to serve and protect"].
Most immigrants are attracted to the luscious welfare state in the Netherlands and Belgium. Once in, they benifit life-long financial, social [and religious] support. This is one of the main reasons [the other being islam] immigrants refuse to integrate and join society.
Why would they? In Belguim the governement even imported extra immigrants and allowed them instantly a vote, just to change the population structure enough [immigrants vote the hands that feeds them=socialists] to prevent the Vlaams Belang getting too many votes. Immigration as a political game.
Please allow me add this: Vlaams Belang, the PVV from Wilders and other true conservatives in Europe stand up against socialist governments, -bureaucracy and islamists in the real life, not from behind keyboards [as Felix also states]. Adding to this, Vlaams Belang anf the Flemish are also in a freedom-struggle not unlike the Irish once were in.
They face fierce and violent opposition from the leftist political establishments and their footsoldiers [Blokwatch, Blokbuster, Indymedia, AFA, anarchists, militant marxists, the lot], who try to get rid of them by all means.3) Even ordinary citizens who openly support freedom of speech receive a share of it.4)
Wilders lives in safe-houses because of the dozens of death threats a day by islamists and socialists, Dewinter and the Vlaams Belang is like WIlders and the PVV, heavily demonized by the same kind of traitors [the real Nazi's and fascists] who instigated the murders of Van Gogh and Fortuyn. If they won’t make it, Europe won’t make it.
@ Outlaw Mike: You’re welcome!
1. http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=497&Itemid=126
2. http://www.vigilantfreedom.org/910blog/2007/10/25/filip-dewinter-on-islamization-in-belgium/
3. http://sioe.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/update-on-the-copenhagen-demonstration-murder-attempt-on-sioesiad-denmark-leader-and-members/
4. http://www.balder.org/presse/Demonstration-Amsterdam-Dam-Square-Freedom-of-Speech-Denmark-250206.php