Comments on: The Conservative Debate: Moderate Conservatism Tried?

By: Grewgills

Grewgills — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:21:51 +0000

As a left leaning voter I can only hope that the Republicans follow the advice of those who say they moved too far to the center.

“you can’t make the party more black if blacks won’t join the party- the problem here isn’t lack of trying because all attempts are rebuffed.”
To get more African Americans on board would require actual changes in policy and giving up on the southern strategy. Neither has yet happened.

By: Interested

Interested — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:24:30 +0000

c3 : So Interested I can only ask, are you “interested” in a “Big Tent” Republican Party or “moral high ground, permanent minority Republican Party”?

Neither, you are showing quite the narrow view for someone who at least says one shouldn't be narrow viewed.

By: C Stanley

C Stanley — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:20:42 +0000

FWIW:
#1 I was a bit lost but if you were saying that fiscal discipline needs to be foremost, c3, I agree with this (and agree that the GOP lost its way)
#2 We shouldn’t be dismissive of youth vote but Interested’s point and the CW is reality IMO- the liberals will generally always win that demographic except when there have been recent obvious liberal missteps (eg, the young Reagan supporters came out because they experienced the mistakes of Carter.) IOW, conservatives can’t hope to convince young voters in the abstract of the follies of liberalism, they have to witness it.
#3 on the immigration fight, c3 is right that the GOP gets the blame because they were in power and couldn’t mend their differences on this issue. Interested is right that the Dems could have stepped in, but the party that’s out of power never gets the blame for the divisions of the majority party (oh, unless it’s the GOP that’s out of power and there’s an urgent need to pass an economic bill that the majority leader won’t pass without GOP support )
#4 Cut tax mantra is definitely too simplistic. Sometimes cutting taxes makes sense, sometimes not, and certain types of taxes should be cut rather than others. c3 though, I think you’re being too simplistic too to equate tax increase with revenue increase, since some tax cuts historically do prove to increase revenue.
#5 Agree with c3 about the condescending attitude toward socons. Three legged stool and all of that.
#6 Agree about Hispanic opportunity missed- but see also #3, immigration debacle. As for blacks, you can’t make the party more black if blacks won’t join the party- the problem here isn’t lack of trying because all attempts are rebuffed. McCain opened his campaign trying to reach out to minorities and was ignored. The few black conservatives have to constantly deal with ostracism, derisive Uncle Tom comments, and even threats.
#7 I’m more with c3 on this one. Small govt vs. large govt is too black and white- voters want to hear about good govt vs. wasteful govt.

One thing that’s becoming clear to me is that the Democratic party is becoming skilled at winning the war of rhetoric by taking more nuanced positions and coming across as the more serious party simply because of the nuance vs. black and white thinking (even if the nuanced positions aren’t correct, the voters don’t seem to understand well enough to see that but they do think the ideas sound more well thought out.) And, they (this one goes directly to Obama’s political skills) are learning how to diffuse the arguments by reframing and reframing the terminology. The GOP needs to learn (quickly) how to do the same in defense of the more conservative positions on issues.

By: c3

c3 — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:53:49 +0000

So Interested I can only ask, are you “interested” in a “Big Tent” Republican Party or “moral high ground, permanent minority Republican Party”?

By: Interested

Interested — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 03:00:59 +0000

Re Rebuttels

#1, it’s redundant
#2, and probably accurate
#3, Break? The Dem’s could have done it, simple
#4, Wrong
#5, whichever
#6, Back to Excuse me – you can explain yourself here.
#7, okay, assuming your rebuttal is accurate, where was your point supposed to be

By: c3

c3 — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 02:46:38 +0000

Interested;
I appreciate the feedback. Please understand these were “off the cuff” remarks.

And that final remark certainly encourages this once independent, now Republican to stay in “the big tent”.

REbuttals:
#1. Don’t understand.
#2 My point was the now standard Republican assumption that when they hit their 30’s they’ll “come around”
#3 Give me a break. The Dems had a party watching Republicans have their very public family feud.
#4 Its a “paralyzing”mantra
#5 Speaking as a moderate “values voters” I’ve certainly felt the “well of course you’ll vote Republican”. So maybe irrelevant to you
#6 Yes, you heard me right. The hispanic vote was one of the great missed opportunities of the past 8 years.
#7 As often as large corporations have. (And by that I mean sometimes). FEMA was poorly run in ‘05. Gonzalez didn’t know how to manage the Justice Department. And this from a President with an MBA!

By: Interested

Interested — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:45:01 +0000

Well lets see CS

#1, redundant thought
#2, I think most people in their post-30 years would recognize their pre-30 years as being – impetuous
#3, I agree, and wish the Democrats has taken action here.
#4, The “mantra” is just fine and quite valid
#5, can’t help but think this is an irrelevant thought
#6, Excuse me?
#7, When has large government run efficiently and effectively

Sorry, but you want to make conservatives into liberals. It won’t happen, nor should it.

By: c3

c3 — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:16:22 +0000

Well I’m not a conservative but I have ideas for the Republican party that might apply to these new conservatives.
1) Compassion unfortunately is limited by budget. And long-term debt will lead to the opposite reaction to compassion (i.e. the younger generations feeling no obligation to the older generations living on a bankrupt social security system) so financial discipline will always be key
2) Understand those under thirty and figure out what of the conservative message is appealing and go with it. They will eventually vote.
3) Immigration has been historically a net plus for the US. Encourage it. We need the workers to support our economy and our elders.
4) Stop with the mantra of “no new taxes” Still value a low taxation policy and always look to reduce the size of government but do what businesses do, consider not only reducing expense but increasing revenue.
5) Don’t condescend or underappreciate those SoCons. And stop assuming the “loudmouths” speak for them.
6) Put on a hard sell with black voters and hispanic voters. Stop being so WHITE!
7) Take the business of running government seriously. You may want it smaller but make sure it works.