Obama: US Is One of Largest Muslim Countries in the World
US President Barack Obama is currently heading to the Middle East, where he will give a speech to “the Muslim world” on Thursday. He decided to give the speech because he believes that the relationship between ‘Muslim countries’ and the US has deteriorated significantly during the eight years George W. Bush was in office.
“The Muslim world.” Is there any such thing? Of course there is not. Is he trying to address Arabs, or also the different Turkic peoples? If so, doesn’t he realize that Turks do not exactly enjoy being called “part of the Muslim world.” Most of them are politically secular. It is a bit like Hosni Mubarak going to Washington in order to give a speech to ‘the Christian world.’
Anyway, so Obama will give a speech to a non-existing Muslim world. He told a French journalist what he hopes to accomplish with it: better understanding. But he said more, something quite interesting:
In an interview with Laura Haim on Canal Plus, a French television station, Mr. Obama noted that the United States also could be considered as “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.” He sought to downplay the expectations of the speech, but he said he hoped the address would raise awareness about Muslims.
In what way is the United States “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world,” pray tell? 0.6% of the population is Muslim. Between 85% and 90% are Christians.
It is also remarkable that Obama suddenly talks openly about his ‘religious past.’ Remember a year ago, when he said that his father was an Atheist, not a real Muslim? Well, that story has changed all of a sudden. He now calls his father a Muslim, and points out that he was surrounded by Muslims during his childhood. That is obviously not a problem, especially not for me, but he should have been so honest and open about it last year.
Of course it is great that he wants to reach out to other peoples, to other cultures. But he should do so wisely, honestly, and without hypocrisy. And giving a speech to ‘the Muslim world,’ I believe, is a major mistake for there is no such thing. The ‘Muslim world’ does not exist. Let him travel abroad, make friends, etc. but let him not make the mistake to categorize people based on their religion.
All excellent points. Also, Obama repeatedly said on the campaign trail that words matter (“just speeches, just words?”) so I do not want to hear from “progressives” – but will anyway – that Obama was not suggesting that the U.S. is literally a Muslim country. Rather, they will say, he meant that there a lot of Muslims who live in the United States – i.e. the U.S. has one the largest Muslim populations and therefore can be seen as a Muslim-populated country. But saying that the U.S. is a Muslim country does not connote mere group representation anymore than it would if we said that the U.S. is a Jewish country or an atheist country.
To follow up: Which is it, then, progressives? Is Obama announcing that he belives that the U.S. really is (or should be) a “Muslim country”? Or, is the great orator once again exhibiting a lazy, sloppy use of language?
It doesnt matter. Obama could proclaim hes going to nuke North Korea and the MSM would sing his praises. He could proclaim that the US is going to lend Iran some ICBM’s so they don’t have to build their own and the MSM and blog left would proclaim the brilliance of his actions which had never been tried before.
In short it does not matter what Obama says because if no one but the “Lost in the wilderness RIGHT” calls him on anything then he has a free pass to the end of the world.
Our only hope is it takes longer then 5 or 6 years for the moderate left to start questioning Obama and holding his feet to the fire, like it did for the Moderate right to do to Bush.
That is our only hope I fear.
Our only hope is that it DOESNT take longer then 5 or 6 years for the moderate left to start questioning Obama and holding his feet to the fire, like it did for the moderate right to do so to Bush and his policies.
As much as GWB was an enemy to the Terrorists I find Obama an enemy to America. Not because hes evil but because he thinks that he can just print money to fix anything. Lord what is this guy thinking? Perhaps coming soon will be our own personal printing presses. Instead of welfare….social safety nets…just go apply for your government printing press. Then you can just print up all the money you want to fix what ails your personal life.
“Is Obama announcing that he belives that the U.S. really is (or should be) a “Muslim country”? Or, is the great orator once again exhibiting a lazy, sloppy use of language?”
For a domestic audience undoubtedly the latter
“Our only hope is that it DOESNT take longer then 5 or 6 years for the moderate left to start questioning Obama and holding his feet to the fire, like it did for the moderate right to do so to Bush and his policies.”
Don’t hold your hopes up. Moderates, perhaps, but moderate lefties? Nope.
Where?
I keep hearing about this creature existing somewhere in the blogosphere, but after having been disappointed repeatedly by so many left-leaning sites that advertise themselves as “moderate” and then proceed to feature distinctly one-sided commentary replete with full-scale demonization towards all Republicans and conservatives, I am increasingly convinced that at least as far as the blogosophere is concerned, “moderate lefty” is a mythological construct or perhaps just a cynical marketing device.
I see now that Obama’s was making the point that the U.S. might be seen as a Muslim nation in so much as a large number of Muslims live in the U.S.: “. . . if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world . . . ” He’s grossly mistaken, of course, as others have pointed out (U.S. only 38th in Muslim population), but that is much better than saying that the U.S. is culturally, or religiously, Muslim. Sorry, the first time I glanced at the NYT blog piece, I quickly scanned only the first few paragraphs.
I do wonder, though, if the NYT blog piece is – in a backhanded sort of way – the second sign in the last week that some of the NYT intelligentsia is beginning to have doubts about the One, at least subconciously. Look, I think the NYT has become a partisan dog cage liner, but I can see that the left might not be happy with them this week. First, they do a profile on the 31 year wunderkind (glorified intern) who is leading much of the administration’s auto bailout policies. Ostensibly, the article was positive. Yet, many moderate and centrist-liberal readers, who might otherwise be inclined to support the Obama administration, read that piece and probably felt a sense of dread and anxiety. Accidental?
Then, this morning in commenting on the French interview with Obama (above), they use the headline “Obama Says U.S. Could Be Seen As Muslim Country, Too” and repeat the same line out of context in the third paragraph, and only provide the context toward the end. That’s typicaly NYT “journalism,” but this time it hits a different target.
Numbers aren’t percentages – what Obama said is true.
From NationMaster, which uses CIA Factbook statistics:
# 41 United States: 4,140,277 1.4%
# 42 Kyrgyzstan: 4,117,024 80%
# 45 Sierra Leone: 3,610,585 60%
# 49 West Bank: 3,159,999 84%
# 50 Mauritania: 3,083,772 99.9%
# 52 Oman: 2,971,567 99%
# 53 Lebanon: 2,678,212 70%
# 54 Albania: 2,494,178 70%
# 57 Eritrea: 2,280,799 50%
# 59 Kuwait: 1,985,300 85%
# 60 United Arab Emirates: 1,948,041 76%
# 65 Gambia, The: 1,433,930 90%
# 74 Qatar: 819,898 95%
# 80 Comoros: 664,534 99%
# 85 Bahrain: 585,093 85%
# 89 Djibouti: 471,935 99%
# 95 Maldives: 348,756 99.9%
# 99 Western Sahara: 272,461 99.8%
# 101 Brunei: 249,481 67%
Source: click on the country’s name on this list:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_isl_pop-religion-islam-population
Tom, that the U.S. ranks 41st as a nation in total numbers of Muslims demonstrates that Obama was correct in saying that the U.S. is “one the largest Muslim countries in the world”? If you’re being sarastic, nice.
Anyway, that’s great news! The U.S. now has one of the highest life expectancy rates in the world! Fans of schools like Univ. of Illinois, Arizona State, and Maryland rejoice: these college football programs are among the best in the nation!
Hey watch it!!!with that back-handed compliment to ASU football
I think that TomJ hit on what Obama meant when he said that the US is one of the largest Muslim nations in the world. It is also frequently said by pols that the US is the second larges Jewish country. Even though our Jewish population accounts for ~2% of our population we are #1 in the world as far as total Jewish population. It is certainly more of a stretch to use our #41 status in Muslim population in the same way, but he is making a political speech.
From what I have seen it doesn’t appear that his father was a particularly good Muslim, but that Obama was none the less culturally exposed to Islam from an early age. It is shameful that he felt the need to minimize this during the election. It is also shameful that had he not done so he would likely have lost.
Some already have. Glenn Greenwald wrote a piece excoriating Obama on the issues of detainee rights about a month ago. A number of left of center bloggers are picking up on the Uighar case now. Expect to see more as time goes on.
Oops, .
It is also frequently said by pols that the US is the second largest Jewish country…
should have read
…is the largest Jewish country…
Examples of liberals criticizing other liberals for not being leftist enough do not respond to the criticism that liberals consistently fail to criticize other liberals for their dishonesty and excesses directed towards non-liberals.
Glenn Greenwald is one of the primary violators of any notions of cross-ideological civility, fairness, or honesty. With name-calling and ad hominum his daily tools with which to attack the other side and avoid responding substantively to his critics, he is one of the most vicious and hypocritical attack dogs in the blogosphere.
Greenwald is not blasting Obama for being an irresponsible far lefty playing to that base.
He is blasting the president for not being far left enough on some of his policies, most notably the fact he is embracing the Bush Admins policy on Gitmo. We all know that Gitmo was a collective application that included strong imput from the Democrats as well as the GOP and the results are what we have today.
Obama being the realist realizes that he supported Gitmo in his heart but proclaimed the opposite to play to his base.
There is no criticism of Obama by moderates today unless its that he is not far enough left….not more moderate.
Actually, that is true of faux moderates (moderates who use moderate/centrist as a marketing tool for their web sites but are really lockstep “no enemies on the left” leftists when you read their actual content), but it is not true of real moderates, several of which have begun to be very critical of Obama, especially on fiscal policy.
Which is my point Jason.
The true moderates are being QUIET.
Some 52 percent of people say torture can be at least sometimes justified to obtain information about terrorist activities from suspects, an increase from 38 percent in 2005 when the AP last asked the question. More than two-thirds of Republicans say torture can be justified compared with just over a third of Democrats.
Moderates were split 50/50 on the issue and for the first time this interview was conducted with cell phones as part of the sampling.
This was a revealing poll actually just conducted and what I found interesting in this was that 50 percent of the so called moderates were on the GOP side of this equation. I think that they are seeing for the first time that BUSH actually took great care to fight this war. Was not running Gulags and that the fact that the SENATE voted 90-8 to block an 80 million dollar request for funding to close Gitmo until he has a plan tells me that the moderates are starting to sort thru the LIES of the far left about Iraq and the war on terror.
They are getting it. Will they get it in time is the question.
I find it interesting that the moderates of this era are indeed
Hmm cut off part of my post.
That should read.
I find it interesting that the moderates of this era are indeed interested in the truth and are willing to search thru the spin to find reality. That is why I believe it is incumbent upon the GOP to take the high road, stick to issues and avoid this name calling approach as they work themselves back to a position of respect and responsibility to the American people.
My comment was in response to Doomed, not you. He said,
Notice that he was talking about left of center bloggers holding Obama’s feet to the fire and I provided an example. There are others and there will almost certainly be more to come.
Should torture and detainee rights really be framed as right v left issues.
Is thinking that the US should not ever condone torture really a left wing position?
Is thinking that detainees, particularly those picked up for bounty by warlords, should be given the right of habeus corpus really a left wing position?
I know that there is less support for these things among those who are to the right of center, but I would not consider it a defining issue. Am I wrong in this?
Jeb
The point I was making is that Moderates are beginning to realize that nothing in the war on terror is black and white.
The angst over not closing Gitmo. Not pulling out of Iraq. The angst is not coming from Moderates or even left Democrats. Its coming from the FAR LEFT and the far left is 99.99 percent in bed with the democratic party and Barak Obama.
Those on the supposed left that are calling out Obama are not calling him out for being too far left. They are calling him out for not being left enough.
What far left pundit said the following,
If you don’t remember or haven’t guessed that was General Petraeus.
If it is such a left wing principle why this from secretary Gates?
JAG lawyers opposed the ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ from the beginning. I don’t think that they are part of the far left either. These techniques were recognized as a mistake by Bush in his second term and most of the ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ ,including waterboarding, were quietly dropped. Bush was already looking to close Guantanamo and Bush formalized a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. All of these were (and by some still are) labeled as far left positions yet these are now Bush/Obama policies. There are also some much less fortunate choices where Obama has continued Bush era policies that he called for an end to as a candidate (habeus corpus and release of the Uighars spring to mind). Neither of those should be left v right issues either.
It is strange to me to be hearing people arguing for 1st term Bush policies that even he (though perhaps not Cheney) has moved on from. It is even more strange to hear 2nd term Bush policies described as far left.
Jeb
I will repeat. Moderates are not as concerned with closing Gitmo as is the Far left or those on the right.
A USA TODAY/Gallup Poll released Tuesday found that those surveyed oppose the closing of Guantanamo by more than 2-1.
By more than 3-1, respondents oppose moving the detainees to prisons within the U.S., according to the poll
Sixty-five percent of Americans polled said they do not support closing Guantanamo and sending its detainees to U.S. prisons while just 32 percent said they did support the idea.
Some 52 percent of people say torture can be at least sometimes justified to obtain information about terrorist activities from suspects, an increase from 38 percent in 2005 when the AP last asked the question. More than two-thirds of Republicans say torture can be justified compared with just over a third of Democrats.
Sorry for the cutting and pasting Michael but its necessary to prove this point to Jeb.
Moderates are starting to see thru the Far LEFT talking points. on the war on terror and Guantanamo. Just as you Jeb continually try to go back and rehash old talking points the facts of the matter is that Americans are beginning to grow weary of the talking points of a group of people who have twisted and distorted the truth for political gain.
Thus those that are growing weary of the failure to close Gitmo or pull out of Iraq are going to be that 32 percent in the above poll that are most likely going to overwhelmingly lean far left. There are always exceptions but I propose to you that 90 percent of that 32 percent are far left in their politics.
That is the way the poll was reported. I went to the Gallup website and looked at the questions. The question with 2-1 (65% v 32%) is as follows,
The 3-1 question (74% v 23%) was as follows,
The questions asked in the polling and the representation of the poll in the USA Today story do not match.
2-1 oppose moving detainees to the US and 3-1 oppose detainees to their state. The reporting on the poll results by USA Today was not accurate.
Other polling, asking about closing Guantanamo only, (CBS/NYT, AP, and others) has the public evenly split.
Regardless of the polling to characterize the positions of Secretary Gates (under Bush), General Petraeus, and the JAG corps as far left positions does not seem valid to me.
That poll did not address Iraq. The timetable for pulling out of Iraq is a Bush policy continued by Obama. This is also a policy supported by Petraeus and Gates. Given that I find it difficult to characterize this as a far left position.
BTW Fear mongering about letting out terrorists into your neighborhood can certainly move polling. I think the recent NIMBY statements by politicians of both parties on this issue has a lot to do with this very recent (~6mos) movement in polling, but YMMV.
So lets see. If the facts dont support your conclusion….spin it?
See this is what the moderates are starting to see thru. The question will be if they see thru it soon enough to put some GOP numbers back in the senate and house in order to curtail a party run amuck.
Regardless of the polling to characterize the positions of Secretary Gates (under Bush), General Petraeus, and the JAG corps as far left positions does not seem valid to me.
You brought those up….NOT ME. There are people on the right who hold those positions. Yet I will repeat for the umpteenth time as you try to deflect the debate away from my position……MODERATES are NOT calling out Obama on far left issues. They are silent.
Petraeus and Gates saying close Guantanamo are parrotting the FAR LEFT position. Not a moderate position. Numbers in polls suggest that many moderates are split on the subject.
YOu can continue to spin it how you want Jeb but the facts are becoming more and more apparent that Moderates are beginning to see with their eyes open and the far left is getting more desperate to get their agenda rammed thru congress because they know that the majority of Americans DO NOT agree with their programs.
Wow. Is it really your position that Secretary Gates and General Petraeus are merely parroting the far left rather than stating there considered views? Would your opinion be different if you agreed with what they said? Is the JAG core also a sock puppet for the far left?
If moderates are split then how is it a far left position? Is the inverse (where moderates are also split) then a far right position?
These are emotionally charged issues that elicit strong responses. Unfortunately our political dialogue tends to place these types of issues into a left v right dichotomy regardless of the fit. It is a trap that many if not most fall into and it does not add clarity or substance, it obscures both. If you oppose closing Gitmo argue the case on its merits rather than simply dropping it into a L or R box that you can then defend.
I’d like to announce to the world, that regardless of what he says…President Obummer, does not speak for this American.
You know, it kinda seems like obama would much rather be president of Egypt than the U.S. Hes trying to open connections with the muslims but what he doesnt relize is that hes burning bridges with people of other faiths. I personally dont have a faith but by saying the U.S. is “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world”. What the hell kinda crap is he trying to pull. He needs to get his act together and quit telling his little lies to everyone cuz its not helping him.
James Joyner has a good take on Obama’s speech over at OTB.
If moderates are split then how is it a far left position? Is the inverse (where moderates are also split) then a far right position?
The silence of the lambs if you will goes way beyond Gitmo. Pulling a General and claiming he is moderate is nothing more then a bait and switch tactic. How do you know the General is Moderate? Has he voiced political views that would lead you to this conclusion?
As for Gates I suppose he could be called a moderate however One or two or three moderates in a sea of moderates does not change the basic tenet that the Moderates are silent on the overwhelming majority of Obama’s policies which are far left wish list redux.
There are always exceptions to every rule. There are conservatives opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan of which I am one. That does not mean conservatives are opposed to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I submit that the moderates whom the democrats woo’d to their side in 2008 are beginning to see with eyes wide open as the truth becomes hard to hide in a sea of donkeys. They are silent for now. How long that continues is up to the Donkeys that run the show and march to the beat of Michael Moore and Moveon.org.
As a moderate I would consider both sides and then take position. For now I am silent. As long as the man in charge knows his stuff and he makes sure his heart is in it, I will just go with the music and follow suite. It will probably take me 6 years before I will realize that change has come.
Coloredopinions
Yours is a song I’ve heard many, many times. I just wished you would speak up about the insane deficit. I do not begrudge the left their wish list. I just want to be able to pay for it.
Doomed,
Read Eric’s post, Moral Victories.