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	<title>Comments on: Figuring Out Hasan</title>
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	<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/</link>
	<description>Because Common Sense Transcends Distance</description>
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		<title>By: Jeb</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105830</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105830</guid>
		<description>Michael,
I wrote this after he woke up and refused to speak to the police.  He has to this point refused to state why he did what he did.  Eric Rudolph on the other hand proclaimed his intent 
&lt;blockquote&gt; Rudolph declared that his bombings were part of a guerrilla campaign against abortion and the &quot;homosexual agenda&quot;. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
That is one of the two primary differences.  Rudolph proclaimed his political agenda and attacked a civilian target to inspire terror in the name of that agenda.  Most definitions of terrorism I have seen require expressed political intent and a civilian target. 
For example,
&lt;blockquote&gt; the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Rudolph meets both requirements.  At this time Hasan meets neither. If and when he states his goals he might meet one.  This in no way makes his crime less heinous, but I do think it means that it is not terrorism as it is generally defined.

I don&#039;t think that anyone but Hasan knows his primary motivation or what made him snap at this point and his targets were decidedly not civilian.  He may or may not see himself as part of a larger war for his version of Islam and that may or may not simply be the rationalization of a man that snapped for other reasons.  Time will make at least some of that more clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
I wrote this after he woke up and refused to speak to the police.  He has to this point refused to state why he did what he did.  Eric Rudolph on the other hand proclaimed his intent </p>
<blockquote><p> Rudolph declared that his bombings were part of a guerrilla campaign against abortion and the &#8220;homosexual agenda&#8221;. </p></blockquote>
<p>That is one of the two primary differences.  Rudolph proclaimed his political agenda and attacked a civilian target to inspire terror in the name of that agenda.  Most definitions of terrorism I have seen require expressed political intent and a civilian target.<br />
For example,</p>
<blockquote><p> the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature </p></blockquote>
<p>Rudolph meets both requirements.  At this time Hasan meets neither. If and when he states his goals he might meet one.  This in no way makes his crime less heinous, but I do think it means that it is not terrorism as it is generally defined.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that anyone but Hasan knows his primary motivation or what made him snap at this point and his targets were decidedly not civilian.  He may or may not see himself as part of a larger war for his version of Islam and that may or may not simply be the rationalization of a man that snapped for other reasons.  Time will make at least some of that more clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Arvak</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105819</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Arvak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105819</guid>
		<description>Intrusive surveillance, retribution against political enemies, and particularly suppression of free expression are hardly the exclusive province of the Republican Party, Michael.  Anyone who lives on a college campus with a speech code can see the Orwellian mirror image.  And unlike greatly exaggerated rumors of free-speech suppression by post-9/11 Republicans, the lefties on campus actually wield the power necessary to pull it off from time to time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intrusive surveillance, retribution against political enemies, and particularly suppression of free expression are hardly the exclusive province of the Republican Party, Michael.  Anyone who lives on a college campus with a speech code can see the Orwellian mirror image.  And unlike greatly exaggerated rumors of free-speech suppression by post-9/11 Republicans, the lefties on campus actually wield the power necessary to pull it off from time to time.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Merritt</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105818</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Merritt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105818</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If he refuses to state a goal and no terrorist organization takes ownership then is it really terrorism?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

First of all, Hasan is (or up until recently was) in a coma at some hospital.  He doesn&#039;t have the capability to state a goal right now.

While I agree with you that the signs point more toward an individual motivated by his religion, as you point out (and the Al-Qaeda thing doesn&#039;t hold up), terrorism is usually defined as an action with a religious or politically ideological motivation.  This clearly was.

Eric Robert Rudolph (1996 Olympic bombing) is defined as a terrorist all the time, and he was a lone attacker.  What makes Hasan different?

&lt;blockquote&gt;But I draw the line at the insistence of some that the Army should subject some or all of its members to intrusive monitoring of bank accounts, private associations, private conversations, etc, without proper individualized cause.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No disagreements, here.  Though it wouldn&#039;t be the first time the law-and-order wing of the Republican Party has gone off the deep end with demands for surveillance powers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If he refuses to state a goal and no terrorist organization takes ownership then is it really terrorism?</p></blockquote>
<p>First of all, Hasan is (or up until recently was) in a coma at some hospital.  He doesn&#8217;t have the capability to state a goal right now.</p>
<p>While I agree with you that the signs point more toward an individual motivated by his religion, as you point out (and the Al-Qaeda thing doesn&#8217;t hold up), terrorism is usually defined as an action with a religious or politically ideological motivation.  This clearly was.</p>
<p>Eric Robert Rudolph (1996 Olympic bombing) is defined as a terrorist all the time, and he was a lone attacker.  What makes Hasan different?</p>
<blockquote><p>But I draw the line at the insistence of some that the Army should subject some or all of its members to intrusive monitoring of bank accounts, private associations, private conversations, etc, without proper individualized cause.</p></blockquote>
<p>No disagreements, here.  Though it wouldn&#8217;t be the first time the law-and-order wing of the Republican Party has gone off the deep end with demands for surveillance powers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeb</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105794</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105794</guid>
		<description>For it to be terrorism doesn&#039;t it need to be goal oriented?  If he refuses to state a goal and no terrorist organization takes ownership then is it really terrorism?
Additionally the targets were undeniably military rather than civilian in nature.

It is a tragic incident and it appears that religious fundamentalism was at least a partial motivator, but terrorism does not seem the appropriate label.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For it to be terrorism doesn&#8217;t it need to be goal oriented?  If he refuses to state a goal and no terrorist organization takes ownership then is it really terrorism?<br />
Additionally the targets were undeniably military rather than civilian in nature.</p>
<p>It is a tragic incident and it appears that religious fundamentalism was at least a partial motivator, but terrorism does not seem the appropriate label.</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105789</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105789</guid>
		<description>I would draw that line too, Jason. Cause or assent/permission required. There&#039;s no doubt safeguards and standards to address specific concerns for some personnel at higher clearance levels. There are some analogues with private employers -- you are not likely to get a job as a corporate comptroller without undergoing a period credit-record check, for example. And more and more potential employees are being googled to check their &quot;embarrassment factor&quot; to the hiring company. Regularly updated background checks on key employees are not exactly unheard of. Those are items of assent, normally overt. You don&#039;t get the job unless you agree to the conditions. 

The signs that Hasan was a potential threat (signs such as attempting to contact Al Qaeda, public statements supportive of Islamic terrorism) were there and did call for a higher level of scrutiny. In this case, as you put it, &quot;individualized cause&quot; existed and had been noted. The question is why it was not acted upon in time. With so much in the way of judgement calls involved (how do you know the ranter will become a shooter?) we may never know that. That he was a nutburger was readily apparent, so the real question is how he could have been distinguished from the mumbling crowd as a deadly-dangerous nutburger without violating his rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would draw that line too, Jason. Cause or assent/permission required. There&#8217;s no doubt safeguards and standards to address specific concerns for some personnel at higher clearance levels. There are some analogues with private employers &#8212; you are not likely to get a job as a corporate comptroller without undergoing a period credit-record check, for example. And more and more potential employees are being googled to check their &#8220;embarrassment factor&#8221; to the hiring company. Regularly updated background checks on key employees are not exactly unheard of. Those are items of assent, normally overt. You don&#8217;t get the job unless you agree to the conditions. </p>
<p>The signs that Hasan was a potential threat (signs such as attempting to contact Al Qaeda, public statements supportive of Islamic terrorism) were there and did call for a higher level of scrutiny. In this case, as you put it, &#8220;individualized cause&#8221; existed and had been noted. The question is why it was not acted upon in time. With so much in the way of judgement calls involved (how do you know the ranter will become a shooter?) we may never know that. That he was a nutburger was readily apparent, so the real question is how he could have been distinguished from the mumbling crowd as a deadly-dangerous nutburger without violating his rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Arvak</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105787</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Arvak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105787</guid>
		<description>Well, let&#039;s put it this way, Michael:  I don&#039;t have any problem with people asking why the Army overlooked anything publicly accessible that should have raised red flags -- blog posts, lectures, whatever.  But I draw the line at the insistence of some that the Army should subject some or all of its members to intrusive monitoring of bank accounts, private associations, private conversations, etc, without proper individualized cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let&#8217;s put it this way, Michael:  I don&#8217;t have any problem with people asking why the Army overlooked anything publicly accessible that should have raised red flags &#8212; blog posts, lectures, whatever.  But I draw the line at the insistence of some that the Army should subject some or all of its members to intrusive monitoring of bank accounts, private associations, private conversations, etc, without proper individualized cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Doomed</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105785</link>
		<dc:creator>Doomed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105785</guid>
		<description>Hat tip to dom.

At least hes willing to put forth something to consider.....however.....

I learned today that.......ABC News uncovered the fact that US intelligence agencies knew of Hasan’s attempts to contact AlQaeda operatives for months prior to the Fort Hood massacre. It isn’t known whether they alerted the military. Hasan also made anti-American comments to his colleagues, which apparently were ignored.

This is sad but now it makes me wonder if the good major was not under surveillance in a manner in which the government was actually trying to use him to uncover operatives in the USA.

I am starting to believe that this guy was actually under deep scrutiny but no one could predict he would do something like this. More likely they were thinking hes gonna build a bomb, hijack a plane or something spectacular as is al qaeda’s op.

Im not excusing the government for letting this happen but rather its now starting to become clear to me that they were indeed watching this guy in hopes that he would lead to a bigger intell haul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hat tip to dom.</p>
<p>At least hes willing to put forth something to consider&#8230;..however&#8230;..</p>
<p>I learned today that&#8230;&#8230;.ABC News uncovered the fact that US intelligence agencies knew of Hasan’s attempts to contact AlQaeda operatives for months prior to the Fort Hood massacre. It isn’t known whether they alerted the military. Hasan also made anti-American comments to his colleagues, which apparently were ignored.</p>
<p>This is sad but now it makes me wonder if the good major was not under surveillance in a manner in which the government was actually trying to use him to uncover operatives in the USA.</p>
<p>I am starting to believe that this guy was actually under deep scrutiny but no one could predict he would do something like this. More likely they were thinking hes gonna build a bomb, hijack a plane or something spectacular as is al qaeda’s op.</p>
<p>Im not excusing the government for letting this happen but rather its now starting to become clear to me that they were indeed watching this guy in hopes that he would lead to a bigger intell haul.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Merritt</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105775</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Merritt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105775</guid>
		<description>Well, there is that lecture he made at Walter Reed a couple years ago that was apparently dripping with fundamentalist juiciness, when he was supposed to give a medical lecture.  Of course, those less...tolerate toward certain religions will no doubt try and cherry pick certain statements to make their point.

Or his &lt;a href=&quot;http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=9030873&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;apparently well known attempts to contact Al-Qaeda&lt;/a&gt; a couple months ago which, if it has legs, may work to eventually demolish the argument I made in this article.

It&#039;s not only about some dubious blog posts made a six months ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there is that lecture he made at Walter Reed a couple years ago that was apparently dripping with fundamentalist juiciness, when he was supposed to give a medical lecture.  Of course, those less&#8230;tolerate toward certain religions will no doubt try and cherry pick certain statements to make their point.</p>
<p>Or his <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=9030873" rel="nofollow">apparently well known attempts to contact Al-Qaeda</a> a couple months ago which, if it has legs, may work to eventually demolish the argument I made in this article.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not only about some dubious blog posts made a six months ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Arvak</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105771</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Arvak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105771</guid>
		<description>Other than his comments on a blog, I don&#039;t agree that the signs were so obvious to observation at the level expected from someone without an extremely high security clearance.

And as someone who was once personally targeted for investigation for online comments (even in pre-internet days in 1987 -- I believe I was the first person EVER targeted with such an investigation by a military agency) based on hasty and inaccurate presumptions about their meaning, I&#039;m not well-inclined towards the 20/20 hindsight reasoning that would ask the military to monitor online comments and make sweeping conclusions based on them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other than his comments on a blog, I don&#8217;t agree that the signs were so obvious to observation at the level expected from someone without an extremely high security clearance.</p>
<p>And as someone who was once personally targeted for investigation for online comments (even in pre-internet days in 1987 &#8212; I believe I was the first person EVER targeted with such an investigation by a military agency) based on hasty and inaccurate presumptions about their meaning, I&#8217;m not well-inclined towards the 20/20 hindsight reasoning that would ask the military to monitor online comments and make sweeping conclusions based on them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://www.poligazette.com/2009/11/09/figuring-out-hasan/comment-page-1/#comment-105770</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poligazette.com/?p=16886#comment-105770</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;You politically correct lily-livered liberal!&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

I didn&#039;t want you to be disappointed, Jason. ;-)

More relevantly, from accounts to date it doesn&#039;t seem that any intensive or intrusive monitoring was needed to discern that Hasan was a dangerous nutburger. Apparently he &lt;i&gt;oozed&lt;/i&gt; dangerous nutburger. So the real question is why no one did anything about it before he proved he was deadly dangerous crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i><b>You politically correct lily-livered liberal!</b></i></p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t want you to be disappointed, Jason. <img src='http://www.poligazette.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>More relevantly, from accounts to date it doesn&#8217;t seem that any intensive or intrusive monitoring was needed to discern that Hasan was a dangerous nutburger. Apparently he <i>oozed</i> dangerous nutburger. So the real question is why no one did anything about it before he proved he was deadly dangerous crazy.</p>
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